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- <text id=90TT2477>
- <title>
- Sep. 17, 1990: Interview:Francis Collins
- </title>
- <history>
- TIME--The Weekly Newsmagazine--1990
- Sep. 17, 1990 The Rotting Of The Big Apple
- </history>
- <article>
- <source>Time Magazine</source>
- <hdr>
- INTERVIEW, Page 11
- Tracking Down Killer Genes
- </hdr>
- <body>
- <p>Francis Collins is finding new ways to trace the origins of
- disease. But he agonizes over the implications of this brave
- new world of medicine.
- </p>
- <p>By J. Madeleine Nash/Ann Arbor and Francis Collins
- </p>
- <p> Q. You just found the gene for neurofibromatosis, often
- confused with Elephant Man's disease. A year ago, you were
- instrumental in finding the gene that triggers cystic fibrosis.
- How will such discoveries affect the practice of medicine?
- </p>
- <p> A. They will transform medicine in ways we can't even
- predict. I'm sure that a hundred years from now, people will
- look back on this era and shake their heads in disbelief in the
- same way that we look back on arsenic treatments for syphilis
- in the previous century. But that's in the long run. It's sort
- of a paradox. Here we have a field of research that I believe
- will totally change the face of medicine. The timetable is
- going to be slow enough that to the average person it won't
- seem like a revolution at all.
- </p>
- <p> Q. But how will it be different?
- </p>
- <p> A. There is going to be a shift away from a therapeutic sort
- of medicine, where you treat someone who is already ill, to a
- medicine where you identify the risks a particular individual
- has for developing certain diseases and then try to prevent
- that person from ever becoming ill. Ironically, one of the
- first consequences of a better understanding of genetics will
- be an emphasis on altering the environmental contribution to
- disease because that's a lot easier to change. If you know you
- are at high risk for lung cancer, your motivation to stop
- smoking will increase.
- </p>
- <p> Q. You are both a scientist and a physician. Does seeing
- patients affect your research?
- </p>
- <p> A. It adds a sense of urgency. The cystic fibrosis gene has
- been found now for a year, and in that year 1,000 people have
- died, including people I knew personally. That is both
- troubling and motivating. You can't sit back and treat what you
- do as an intellectual exercise when the mere mention of a
- disease brings to your mind the faces of people you care about.
- That's why it's important to have a certain percentage of
- people working in this field who are comfortable with both
- basic science and clinical medicine. If we don't, we are going
- to miss out on opportunities to apply this new information.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Many people find the notion of genetic testing scary.
- Should they?
- </p>
- <p> A. When you go to your doctor and have your cholesterol
- measured, what's really being measured is your genes. We as a
- society seem quite comfortable with screening for cholesterol
- and then using that information to alter behavior. No one would
- argue that testing for cholesterol is opening a Pandora's box.
- So we have already started down this path. Like it or not, we
- have opened the door and walked through.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Surely you must have some concerns?
- </p>
- <p> A. Here we are, poised on the threshold of widespread
- genetic screening that should be beneficial to people. Yet we
- are talking about carrying this out on a population that is
- largely uninformed about genetics. Those of us involved in
- genetic counseling are appalled by the scale of the problem.
- </p>
- <p> Q. What kinds of things might go wrong?
- </p>
- <p> A. We have the disturbing example of sickle-cell anemia to
- prove to us that if we don't include explanations and education
- and counseling in a screening program, we will end up doing
- more harm than good. An awful lot of people were found to be
- sickle-cell carriers, with no significant risk to their own
- health, but they wound up believing that eventually they would
- become ill. Insurers canceled policies. It is terrifying to
- look back on this experience, and a good reason to go slow on
- screening for cystic fibrosis.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Couldn't genetic screening also be misused by affluent
- individuals to create superior children, thereby increasing
- social inequalities?
- </p>
- <p> A. The notion of yuppie couples' picking the child with the
- highest IQ out of the 10 or 12 possibilities they might be able
- to generate through, say, in vitro fertilization is not worth
- spending a lot of time on. Intelligence is very complex. We
- can't even define it. It is not at all clear to me that a real
- grasp of the genes responsible for intelligence is going to
- come about, certainly not during the next hundred years.
- Athletic ability? That's even worse. Are we talking physical
- strength or height or quickness, and what do those traits mean?
- We should be focusing on scenarios that are closer to home.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Such as?
- </p>
- <p> A. It is important to make a distinction between a
- life-threatening disease and a trait. In our society, prenatal
- diagnosis followed by pregnancy termination has been deemed
- acceptable when the consequences to the unborn child are
- devastating disease and early death. But now we come to sex
- selection. Sex is not a disease. Yet it is possible, using
- simple diagnostic techniques, to determine the sex of an unborn
- child well before the time when pregnancy termination is no
- longer allowable. There are certainly instances in genetics
- clinics where couples come in with just that idea in mind.
- Legally there is nothing criminal about what these couples are
- proposing. But to me, and I suspect to the majority of the
- American population, this is troubling, even repugnant. It
- affronts me.
- </p>
- <p> Q. What about diseases that may not strike until late in
- life, or that vary in severity?
- </p>
- <p> A. This is where it gets muddy, and everyone is going to
- draw the line differently. Consider the situation with
- manic-depressive illness, a reasonably common disorder. It is
- clearly genetically influenced, though not in a simple way.
- Now, manic-depressive illness can be a terrible cross to bear.
- The swings into depression are awful, and the highs can be very
- destructive. Yet a substantial number of highly creative people
- have suffered from this disease. Suppose we find the gene
- responsible for manic depression. If every couple has a
- prenatal test to determine if a fetus is at risk for manic
- depression, and if every time the answer is yes that fetus is
- done away with, then we will have done something troubling,
- something with large consequences. Is this what we want to do?
- </p>
- <p> Q. Where do you draw the line?
- </p>
- <p> A. Because of my own religious background [Baptist], I will
- be on one end of the spectrum arguing against the use of this
- information too broadly for fetal selection. And that really
- highlights that we're not talking about a scientific issue.
- Scientists have the capacity to understand and explain what it
- is possible to do. But they are not in a unique position to be
- saying what is proper, moral and ethical to do. We are in an
- awkward situation right now because those who have the most
- experience in philosophical and religious spheres are not well
- informed about the scientific facts. We need to get ourselves
- together and teach each other something.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Personally you do not approve of abortion. How do you
- handle this in a clinical setting?
- </p>
- <p> A. It is a sacred and unbreakable rule that genetic
- counselors avoid imposing their own value systems. If a patient
- struggling with a terrible decision asks me, what would I do,
- I don't answer. I must not answer. The consequence of taking
- that rather hard-line view is that I can tell you of situations
- where couples have taken information I have helped them get,
- and then done with that information things that horrify me.
- </p>
- <p> Q. When will gene therapy start providing couples with
- better options?
- </p>
- <p> A. It's conceivable that we'll have effective treatments for
- some of these diseases in the next 10 to 15 years, but I
- couldn't swear to it. The problem is, we're just starting down
- this path, feeling our way in the dark. We have a small lantern
- in the form of a gene, but the lantern doesn't penetrate more
- than a couple of hundred feet. We don't know whether we're
- going to encounter chasms, rock walls or mountain ranges along
- the way. We don't even know how long the path is.
- </p>
-
- </body>
- </article>
- </text>
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